Fairy Tail, Chapter 515: I am You, You are Me
Well, the backstory wasn't half bad, actually! I could give less than a rat's ass about the actual present-day confrontation where it's just variations of 'you're not my child!' 'well, my real family is Fairy Tail!' and Wendy going 'you're horrible!' and all that -- obviously since this is Fairy Tail Eileen will feel sorry and will promise to be a good mammy after this fight, if not in the next arc (if there even is a next arc) but the backstory presented here is actually interesting if not entirely original.
We get a quick little tie-in with Acnologia's role in the war by showing that, hey, Acnologia showing up and basically killing everyone brought an end to the war. Eileen is married to some douche prince of some random country in a political marriage, and her transformation into a dragon caused everyone to think that she's an Acnologia waiting to happen, being disowned by everyone including her own husband. There's a series of torture scenes that's... well, still BDSM-esque but actually framed to show the torture side more than the sexy side (Read: every Lucy/Erza torture scene ever). Eileen's apparently holding on to the fetus in her stomach for three years, when confronted by her husband.
Her husband tries to cut open her belly to prove that she's not pregnant, but then she sprouts wings, transforms into a dragon and smooshes her husband and basically murders everyone while running off shouting "I am human I am human". Apparently she lasted for hundreds of years before encountering Zeref, who transforms her into a human, but her dragon transformation has caused some permanent changes. She looks like a human, but she can no longer taste, sleep, and permanently itches and, well, again, it's not an uncommon trope in fiction. It was still presented somewhat well, though.
She then realizes she's pregnant with a human child (who survives the hundred years simply by the caveat of 'it's magic, dammit!') then we get this full-page panel of crazy Eileen face which is genuinely disturbing. She wants to enchant herself into her unborn child, which ended up failing and she dumps Erza... wherever. So yeah. I'm not sure just what enchanting oneself into one's unborn child entails, but Eileen's backstory does make her a fair bit more interesting. Not enough to forgive her inherent Mary Sue-ness, and it does raise a couple of questions like, why does Acnologia not recognize that there's a dragon standing in front of him when the two of them met before, other than stupid 'Zeref magic!' explanations?
Oh well. A half-interesting Fairy Tail chapter is better than the drivel which we've been getting for a couple of years now, so I'll take what little I can get with this manga.
Actually if Acnologia did recognize something about her, it would have been a good subtle hint which would foreshadow her connection with the dragons and hence good writing but Mashima messed it up.
ReplyDeleteSecondly, it seems Mashima also felt that readers can't relate to Eileen so suddenly he decided to throw in this whole "hated by your own people for being a semi-monster" backstory which is basically a copy-paste of Gaara's story from Naruto. But what pisses me off is that it is an emotional exploit, a cheap way for us to suddenly feel sorry for a douchebag villain who was just introduced, just some chapters ago. Yes Fairy Tail has done this before but not to this much extent, this sudden introduction of a character out of no where, then putting them through, not one tragic moment but rather suffering for 3 years straight by her own loves one while she is still pregnant. It is blown out of proportion and hence shitty writing at its worst. All you had to do was simply what Naruto did, a simple failed assassination attempt on Gaara, by a guy who pretended to be his friend, was all it took for him to realize that no one loves him anymore and hence he might as well embrace the idea that he is a monster, similar to how Eileen hates humanity. But nooooo, instead we got douchebag husband and a kingdom that is being douchebags just for the sake of douchebags so we can justify Eileen acting as a douchebag herself. Notice how Eileen's husband isn't even named. That's how much of a plot device he is.
And then finally we have Zeref doing something that he ACTUALLY intended in the first place but too freakin late Mashima. He is still a boring plot-device of a villain whose only note-worthy acts are of kindness, not villainy and hence that's why he gets out-shined by every villain we seen so far.
I have to agree that the story did a relatively good job as far as backstories go, which is an honest-to-god rarity for Fairy Tail. It also actually does a good job explaining why Eileen was so overconfident facing Acnologia - she basically assumes that her being the creator of Dragon-Slayer magic means she knows best how to fight it (though even then she admitted she couldn't beat him one-on-one and her whole "world re-arrangement spell" was her way of avoiding said unwinnable fight). In regards to why Acnologia wouldn't recognize her, maybe it's because Zeref completely purged her dragon-side - he was experienced in the mechanics of dragon magic - and her sensory damage might have been a direct consequence of just how extensive a purge Zeref had to enact to get the dragon cells out of her body.
ReplyDeleteI agree yet also disagree with Ryo 256. It's true that the "flashback to flesh-out/build sympathy for the new villain" is pretty commonplace in a lot of manga and it could have been done a lot better by actually making Eileen's husband/Erza's father into an actual named character to illustrate how deep a betrayal his actions were. On the flip-side though, I actually feel Ryo's being a bit too harsh about what the scenes take from - in all honesty, it feels more like it copies from Attack on Titan as opposed to Naruto in regards to the body-horror Eileen went through for hundreds of years as a dragon, similar to how Yimr in AoT "woke up" after 60 years as a Titan. Plus, unlike Gaara's story, where one person's sudden betrayal was enough to break him, it took years of Eileen being actively, physically tortured by her own people, after everything she did to keep humans alive during the Dragon Wars - in addition to her magic having wiped out the dragons whom she’d also strove to protect - to break her faith in the world. It even had the guts to illustrate what few series would ever show - the torment of a *pregnant woman*, which is pretty dark compared to the series' normal insipidness (of course, it could be just the extreme-opposite result of Mashima being absolutely tasteless in what he thinks is good plot, but it's still a lot darker then normal for him).
Now, with the "enchant herself onto Erza" thing... it kinda sounds like Eileen was trying to pull an Orochimaru - she wanted Erza's body as a replacement for her own desensitized one. Or in short, she saw her own daughter as nothing more then replacement flesh. In fact, it’s possible that Eileen’s newfound callousness and disillusionment with the world might actually have been the catalyst for Zeref’s own decision to finally give up on humanity himself (or at least that’s what I’d make it if I were FT’s writer). And in a rare example of actual fucking foresignt, Mashima may very well have snuck in an actual fesable way for Erza to beat Eileen (acquired immunity to Eileen's magic from spending centuries in her womb). In that regard, I cannot in good conscience agree with his calling this particular chapter "shitty writing" - especially compared to what FT's normal writing standard is XD
The problem with tragic backstory of Eileen is that its rushed, came out of no where and blown out of proportion. Compare it with Erza of how she was raised as a slave from childhood, facing casual torture. Compared to a grown woman such as Eileen, a child may not have taken the suffering with much endurance. But even with such a situation Mashima handled it maturely by not presenting it as completely a dark situation as she had friends to comfort her and eventually she escaped and find Fairy Tail. It depicts real life better as not simply being a sad life, that it has its ups and downs. Eileen's backstory is filled with nothing but pain and the one who inflicts the pain has no proper motivation for this except for the author to create forced sympathy for her. Like why would you torture her? To get information? On what? Dead dragons? Or what's the point of inflicting violence on her? Was she being arrogant and needed to put in her place or needed to make her submit because she is too violent? Not really, she barely put up a fight at all. What's the point of putting her, completely naked, on the cross for everyone to see? Like to show that she is powerless and her kind needs to be ridiculed even though she is kinda one of her kind and hasn't shown to be much of a threat? It would have made sense if it was an execution scene but again it seems to humiliate her just for the sake of humiliating her. Like you would expect me to believe that NO ONE AT ALL tried to object this treatment of their queen? Like was she that terrible of a queen that people hated her? This is not shown at all. Like I said, people who made her suffer have no real reason to do so, it seems forced and unnecessary. A cheap way for us to feel for her and done to an unbelievable intensity.
DeleteIf you look at Witcher 3's way of burning alive of inhuman being, it is still far better. People hated non-human for the pain some of them inflicted upon humanity, so a religious-movement started that would purge humanity from such creatures by publicly putting them on the cross and burning them. There's no long time torture except to extract information on the whereabouts of the remaining non-humans nor humiliating them by putting on nude in front of everyone (but even if they did, it would have made sense to show that non-humans are weak and not to be feared). Motivations for mistreatment of non-humans in Witcher 3 is justified, better presented and is more mature and believable.
Reason I pointed out Gaara's story is because it is again presented maturely and not blown out of proportion. He is left in isolation from everyone, including his own father. After a long time of not feeling loved at all, he finally makes a friend who was actually an assassin hired by his own father to kill him. It is believable, it even shows the motivation of the people as they witness Gaara accidentally killing villagers so someone has to take this uncontrollable monster out. This isn't the case with Eileen, she has given no reason for the citizens nor her husband to fear her or in anyway to turn against her let alone torture her for 3 years straight while she is still pregnant. And on top of that, unlike Gaara who broke realistically because he was just a child, Eileen seems still not hate humans even after 3 years of torture. Still begging her husband to spare her. So it makes you wonder that just what is the point of torture in Fairy Tail if it never really affect anyone? Because Eileen's lack of sympathy for humans comes from her becoming numb and distanced due to her becoming a dragon, not because she was tortured by them. So yeah, a simple exile, a failed assassination or execution attempt was all it was needed for her to not trust humans again but instead we got a blown of proportion misery porn to emotional exploit readers to quickly give Eileen some attention that is undeserved because such an important character (who invented dragon slayer magic apparently) should have been introduced and developed long ago.
But the problem with your own complaint is that being "rushed" doesn't necessarily equate to being "shit". Plus, the "came out of nowhere" and "blown out of proportion" bits are a bit of an exaggeration to me - ever since we first saw her/learned she was connected to Erza, we pretty much knew Mashima was going to give her an important role and backstory (by FT standards at least). Being one of Zeref's two strongest followers, even moreso.
DeleteAlso, I think the sharp contrast between Erza's having friends in that situation and Eileen's having no friends is *intentional* to illustrate why it was that Eileen turned out so different. Plus, Eileen's situation is actually somewhat realistic to real life, too - people accused of being witches weren't exactly treated well, either, and they were tortured brutally for likely the same reason Eileen was; to encourage people not to follow their footsteps and partake in forbidden arts (hell, this is the first time we've actually seen an actual consequence enforced by any magic society on someone for using forbidden magic). Just killing her ran the risk of martyring her - usually when they do that, it’s for the intent of making a public statement against others like Eileen; aka, other Dragon-Slayers or people after that power.
Now, Eileen's husband defiantly was a dick about it, but he did actually have some degree of justification for how he acted given what just ONE Dragon-Slayer (Acnologia) was able to do to the entirety of the dragon species and only by way of apathy decided not to do the same to all humans; they didn't need another one running free, let alone have others try to mimic her. The difference between mother and daughter her is that Erza was a slave, whereas Eileen was a captive "monster/heretic" (and as a token marriage, her value was already questionable to the kingdom she was held by). Ergo, it actually does make sense in context for Eileen to have been treated worse then Erza . Also, you made a mistake there - Eileen wasn’t the queen; she was the wife of a *general*, not the wife of royalty.
Likewise, I actually feel I have to contest that claim about Gaara - he was looked down on and scorned/feared by society, but he hadn’t done something like “create special magic to protect dragons only to have your life’s work be used to destroy the dragons you wanted to protect and turn all the humans against you”, nor was he actively physically tortured by everyone. At best, Gaara faced endless apathy, fear and scorn and having the one kind person betray him was what it took to shatter his worldview - for Eileen, it comparatively took *a whole lot more*, from being betrayed by one species she tried to save and inadvertently destroying the other, to spending centuries as a comparative monster and never again be fully human. Eileen knew nothing but compassion at first, which actually makes it more believable that it took something as big as what she went through to make her snap. Contextually speaking, this *was* handled rather maturely, or at least compared to FT’s normal standards.
I did not refer it to shit because it is rushed, I find Fairy Tail in general, particularly after the time-skip that leads to GMG Arc, to be terrible. Now let me first state a fact, Eileen came out of no where. Her concept art does not exist until volume 57 and if there was a correct time to foreshadow her it would have been Tower of Heaven arc where a mother figure would be abandoning Erza in a village in a flashback or something. Not only is Eileen a strong wizard, she is the inventor of Dragon slayer magic, why haven't we heard of this before?! Heck even the Gods of Isghal were foreshadowed since then Phantom Lord arc as the 10 Wizard Saints, yet Eileen who is actually stronger than all of them is not heard of until we are like over 11 arcs deep into the story. She came out of no where. Good authors create rules for their own universe and follow them obediently so we can get consistent writing but here Mashima can just introduce whatever character he want out of no where, having whatever powers he wants with whatever backstory he wants with as many retcons as he likes. This is shitty writing. And while I tolerate Eileen's existence, I don't tolerate what I consider a 'sin' of the author of emotional exploiting readers with extreme unnecessary abuse of characters, especially characters as I stated, that came into the story out of no where and did not have much of a developed role. It is too much.
DeleteWitches is not a good analogy because they practiced something that was clearly forbidden in the society, Eileen hasn't done anything taboo-ish. At least if she did, the manga should depict opposition from people, telling her to cut it out but nope. She won them the war, even if we suppose that she is stripped of her queen role when she married, she is the savior of her kind who once even ruled over dragons. And it's not like Acnologia went out of a rampage forever, he just ended the war and left. So there is more reason to side with Eileen then to go against her, LET ALONE torture her for 3 years straight while she is still pregnant. I mean the action of this caliber would lead to at least civil war with one side with Eileen and other with her husband. Or heck if we were to accept that Eileen was in another nation as a the wife of the general, her previous nation would might as well do war for publicly putting her naked on the cross. But like I said, the scenario is unrealistic, no one came for her because humanity was depicted, not as black and white, but rather as one-dimensional douchebags for the sake of being nameless dicks. You point out Acnologia as a reason for them being afraid but like I said, his actions weren't that terrible and since only Acnologia was mentioned and not dragon slayers as a whole, it seemed that people did not really frown upon dragon slayers in general and hence a weak reason to hate on Eileen. So hence it is blown out of proportion, not believable. I might accept torture maybe for days and then with execution but 3 years! It would have been better off as her husband simply going for the kill with the intention, "Sorry my beloved, I can't afford another Acnologia, so I'm gonna put you out of your misery, it's the best I can do." But no no, we got, "Oh, your face is weird, YOU MUST BE THE DEVIL HIMSELF, quickly boys, let's cage her and make her angry for a long time so she can eventually turn into the monster we suddenly afraid she would." Which also stupid because if you are afraid, you should kill the beast as quickly as possible, not drag it out if she was a walking time-bomb as her husband stated.
Continued.
Lastly, Gaara broke realistically because he's a kid but more importantly, he's depicted as a human. Unlike Eileen who had no anger against humans even after the 3 years of mistreatment. Heck, even the baby isn't harmed! Like I said, torture is weak in Fairy Tail it seems so even the intensity of the situation evaporates and you wonder, would it really matter if Mashima just removed the treatment altogether and her husband simply stabbing her was all it took for her to go dragon and flee from humanity? Besides Gaara isn't the problem, it's what he has inside. Unlike Eileen's dragonifcation that can be ANYTHING, Gaara's monster was well-known for generations for being the incarnation of hatred itself that likes to kill humans because they keep imprisoning him in humans since forever and apparently putting him in a unstable child who lost his mother may not be the best idea so we kinda assassinate him for the greater good. Whereas Eileen's people reaction is really really big for what may just be a small problem.
DeleteLastly I agree that it's more mature for RECENT Fairy Tail writing but, early arcs where everyone backstory is shown is still far far better because it's not a huge sob story with Natsu, Erza, Gray or Lucy. They all faced pain and joy, they all pulled through, it is inspirational, it is fleshed out and not rushed. That was when Mashima was writing better, now he is trying his best to pull out as many concepts as he can and flesh them out as quick as he can. And hence you will only get is shit writing. When it was far better to take it slow, with a balance of bad and good situations and overall realistic. Or rather if we are talking about a better story, we might as well remove Eileen altogether. We really don't need her, heck we don't need a lot of characters since Mashima has a habit of introducing them and then forgetting them altogether.
You’re ignoring literally everything I said, Ryo; again, she was introduced as (A) having a connection as Erza’s mom and (B) as one of Zeref’s top two. How quickly she was introduced literally has zero impact on the fact that from the moment she was seen, we knew she was going to be given some kind of important role in things.
DeleteAnd again, I should remind you that we didn’t even know about Aconologia until the Trenou arc, and his origins were put off till the GMG arc. We didn’t know what it was that wiped out the dragons 400 years ago, either, which you’d think would have been made public knowledge with how big an event it was. Between Eileen being part of another continent’s forces (Alvaraz), likely being treated as dead for centuries and possibly having had her name wiped out of the history books as punishment for creating the dangerous Dragon-Slayer magic, *how* is it surprising that nobody would have heard of her?
Also, I feel I must contest that claim on rules - it’s actually a complete misnomer. Following “rules” and the like does not guarantee good writing in the slightest - if anything, it guarantees it be predictable and therefore potentially stale, or more stale then it already is since little to nothing is ever 100% original nowadays. Hell, it’s actually the *complete bane* of any author’s existence to follow rules “obediently”, because that limits creativity, and each author has their own set of “rules” to follow that leaves no such common factor to follow. Hell, Mashima’s self-imposed “rules” about his writing (one-punch wins, nakama-powerups, deus-ex mashimas, fetish scenes) never deviating should be proof of just how wrong it is to never vary from what your “rules” are. Hence why I again say that I cannot in good conscience call this “shitty writing”, because (compared to FT’s past standard) that would be wrong to say.
Her presence hardly constitutes a “sin” because, honestly speaking, the *entire point* of flashback scenes is *is* to use emotional exploitation to ground a character in the audience’s mind with some kind of understandable background - which, again, was more understandable in Eileen’s case because she was equivalent to a witch for their cultures; as I myself stated, for once in FT’s story, a character being abused actually made sense because she was seen as basically a second Acnologia and fear of that drove people over the edge.
And yes, witches are a good analogy here because that’s *exactly* what Dragon-Slayer magic *was* to society. A FORBIDDEN MAGIC. Even it’s modern-day descriptions called it a forbidden magic, and the story of Acnologia’s rampage is the reason why that is. As of the end of the Dragon-Human War, Dragon-Slayer magic was precisely equivalent to witchcraft in the medieval age; it was a taboo magic, just like all the other slayer magics were considered to be. Eileen’s actions were considered taboo-ish from the moment she started turning into a dragon herself - because the last time a dragon-slayer got that far, an entire species (the dragons) was wiped out and it was only because of Acnologia’s apathy that humans didn’t get the same treatment. Hell, the fact that dragon-slayer magic was demonized so much that the only thing remembered of it is that Zeref (the most infamous black mage in history) used it to create Acnologia ought to tell you something - if just saying “cut it out” wasn’t enough for Acnologia (a user of the magic), how do you figure people would think it enough for Eileen (the creator of the magic)?
(Continued)
DeleteAlso, I should point out that Eileen literally didn’t win them anything - Acnologia did; she literally pointed out in the first page that he was considered the *only one* who truly won the war, whereas everyone else effectively lost because human civilization was devastated and dragons as a whole were wiped out. The fact he didn’t rampage past the war does not in any way lessen the severity of what he did - namely prove he could wipe out all humanity if he wanted to, which made the idea of more like him absolutely terrifying. To say his actions “weren’t terrible” is false - he literally committed *wholesale genocide*; he killed off all the dragons (one of the world’s most powerful races), which effectively makes him equivalent to FT’s version of Kratos from God of War. Hence why they tortured Eileen publicly - they didn’t want anyone else so much as thinking about following her/Acnologia’s path. It’s one of the few times in FT’s history that we actually saw a reaction from any magic society to someone using forbidden magic, so between the time (400 years ago) and the severity of the “crime” (being equivalent to a horseman of the apocalypse like Acnologia), their comparatively barbaric response actually makes sense context-wise as a believable response.
Eileen was never a queen - she was the token marriage to a general, not a member of actual royalty; she was never an authority figure in anything else but being a prodigal mage and the most that could be said about her was that she was the adoptive daughter of a leading dragon… but considering the damage Dragon-Slayers (Acnologia) inflicted on the world, the last part wouldn’t have counted for much. In fact, after the war, pretty much the only thing she’d really be known as is the woman who’s life’s work resulted in Acnologia’s creation - ergo, no here really wasn’t any such reason why anyone would likely want to side with her. Even in Eileen’s own mind, she failed because the reason she went to war (protect the dragons) failed completely (the dragons actually got wiped out by the results of her work), so it’s hardly an invalid reason for people to be afraid of her or any Dragon-Slayer.
She’d be equivalent to a plague-bearer and the creator of said plague - after Acnologia’s display, nobody wanted anyone else going down the same road. She may as well *have* been the Devil to those people - hell, it’s not like that wasn’t what Mashima seemed to be going for (the angelic being and their fall from grace into a being that resents humanity). And again, I should point out that, yes, disturbing as it was to see her tortured, that Eileen’s husband didn’t believe she was pregnant - and actually gave a reason for not believing it, which is more then most douchebags do. Even if it doesn’t lessen his being a dick, it does honestly make more sense to doubt a woman’s claim of pregnancy when she goes three years without so much as ever starting to show it.
And who would come to defend her? Her own nation was arguably wiped out - all their members who had Dragon-Slayer magic like her… well, it seems implied that the alternative to dragonizing was *death*, so between all those people dying along with the dragons, there likely wasn’t much left of Eileen’s original culture after the war, which is likely the reason she was even forced into a political marriage in the first place. Basically, the implication was that the results of Dragon-Slayer magic were either dying or ending up like Acnologia - Acnologia’s actions *did* get taken as representing Dragon-Slayers as a whole, because he was seen as proof of how dangerous they actually are (people who can casually burn the whole world single-handed - in which case, JUST ONE is enough to make the magic dangerous and therefore outlawed), and it’s unlikely that any positive examples Dragon-Slayers survived the war’s end. Plus, it’s debatable whether or not her own people would want her either, considering they’d have been just as badly scorned by the results of Dragon-Slayer magic (Acnologia) as the rest of the world was
(Continued)
DeleteAlso, keep in mind that few people beyond Eileen herself actually knew anything about the effects of Dragon-Slayer magic aside for the fact that everyone who ever used it either died or, in Acnologia’s case, became an earth-scorching monster. It’s possible that, due to how slowly Eileen was changing prior to her husband slashing at her, nobody actually knew she could just suddenly up and change into a full dragon that quickly. Hence why they thought they had the time to make an example of her.
And again, with Gaara, I point out that this *isn’t* entirely the case - like I said before, Gaara was a kid who never knew compassion from anyone but one person and he literally never knew why. And what you said actually works *against* your argument; Gaara wasn’t the one responsible for why he was hated, but Eileen on the other hand *was* because her conscious choices led to Acnologia’s creation. Unlike Gaara, Eileen not only knew compassion from everyone but was lauded as an idyllic prodigy… and then when she tried to protect those people who looked up to her and had faith in her, her life’s work resulted in most of them dying as an indirect side-effect of what she created, which promptly turned the whole world against her, coupled with becoming an actual physical monster and being desensitized afterword.
Contextually speaking, her breaking *is* realistic for her story because of precisely how much it took to cause such a sharp behavioral shift - just her getting attacked by one close person wouldn’t likely have been enough to make her change so sharply the way it did for Gaara. Hell, it’s actually arguable that the situation Eileen was in is *equatable* to what Gaara went through, the only difference being that Gaara was a kid who knew nothing else before that whereas Eileen did know something before that… and therefore required something far more extreme to make her in a state similar to Gaara’s end-point of disparagement towards humankind. In fact, it’s also wrong to say that dragonification is different from being a Junchuriki in this context, because it WASN’T for the people involved - both Eileen and Gaara were treated as actual monsters; the difference was that in Gaara’s case, he was just the vessel… but Eileen actually *was* the creature-in-question everyone feared her to be. And contrary to what you said, it really couldn’t have been “anything” - again, the word in FT for proving Dragon-Slayers were “well-known for generations for being the incarnation of hatred itself” is “Acnologia.” Ergo, no - after what Acnologia was shown able to do, it was in no way a “small problem” if someone followed his footsteps.
And where are you getting “no anger toward humans” from? The only thing Eileen ever was shown to express during that time was concern for her unborn child - it was never said one way or the other that she hated or blamed humans for her actions. Plus there’s the fact that, to a degree, she may have actually felt she deserved some of that scorn out of self-loathing for how her work pretty much led to the end of the dragons. Also, (aside from Dragon-Slayers already being proven to be crazy-tough - her moreso from having a scaled body), it’s implied that Eileen was using her magic to keep Erza in a fetal state like a form of stasis in order to prevent the torture from harming her, which is why it didn’t develop at all in three years time - she tells her husband as much, though he doesn’t believe her. So it’s less that “torture is weak” here and more that it was special circumstances.
(conclusion - skip to here if the TL;DR process of thought applies to above)
DeleteAgain, it is comparatively more mature because it’s also done a better job actually being a contextually good story - not great, mind you, but better then what FT normally gives us. And it’s not like this was a total sob-story either - Eileen’s actions (indirectly) caused the end of the dragons; actions she persisted in despite being warned by her dragon-parent of the potential consequences. And I actually kinda beg to differ about everyone else’s backstory being “inspirational” or “fleshed out” - a lot of them felt as cliched as this was; difference was that it wasn’t painful to go through. Personally speaking, I never once felt their stories were "inspirational" as opposed to "interesting", same as Eileen's, because they also relied on tropes a lot like this did. And strictly speaking, hardly anything in Fairy Tail was *ever* handled "realistically" - hell, the very introduction to Fairy Tail kind of highlighted the people in the guild as anything but realistic in terms of normalcy compared to the average human being. Hence why, once again, I say that I cannot in good conscience call this chapter “shit writing.”
Forgive me I don't think I can keep up with the discussion here since word limit too much and it seems it's expanding too much with points. So I think I'll stop it but it would be wrong to not respond to your efforts so I'll make a few conclusive statements, mostly how about I agree with you and clarify a few points about myself that would make it easy to understand my conclusions. BTW I did not ignore you, I just wanted to repeat my points in a different explanation to show that why they are a bit crucial but since I'll be commenting paragraph to paragraph, now I'll legitimately prone to ignore so bear with me. And if you choose to respond, then make it conclusive solid points because we are going to end our discussion here so give me your final statements without expecting a response.
Delete1) Acnologia was foreshadowed through Gildarts' failed quest in Edolas arc, who was himself foreshadowed since Erza vs Natsu fight. But the thing is, I also have a problem with Acnologia being added out of no where when we already have Zeref being presented as the Big Bad since the Lullaby arc. So point well-made, and I agreed.
2) Problem with Eileen's theory of name wiped from history books is that it is a speculation, I wanna see the manga depict it as so otherwise such an idea could be applied to anything. What if there are dragon-slaying exceeds living on top of a mountain whose existence was also hidden from history because it was too dangerous? Possibilities are endless, that's why we expect author to confirm and not rely on speculations alone otherwise we would be too lost in our own ideas than the actual story.
3) I think you are talking about formulaic writing. Whereas, rules are made to make sure the characters in the universe don't go around doing whatever they like. Superman's kryptonite weakness is a rule and while authors are criticized for using it too many times but if suddenly it is broken, at least without proper explanation, then it means that anything can happen. That next chapter, you might have Happy one-shotting Acnologia and you won't be able to argue at all. You have to admit that there are some limits, an author can't cross, limits that they themselves add to make it fair for everyone.
4) Emotional exploitation IS the sin, it should never be used. Emotions should be invoked naturally, not by constantly presenting cruelty over and over again until the reader finally feels something. In this case use of subtlety is important and that is a topic too big to explain here.
5) Witches aren't a good analogy because their problem was OBVIOUS, Eileen's doing was questionable like, "Okay this magic helped us in the war but it has some nasty side-effects." whereas magic of witches has never been used at the country-level to like win a war or do anything so it never had a positive version, witches' case was black whereas Eileen's problem is grey, hence people would be divided over this and not accept witch-burning for Eileen as the only possible response.
Continued.
6) Regarding the "cut it out" not working isn't the problem, the problem is that it's not depicted in the manga at all (refer to point 2 on why depiction is important). Eileen introduced a different version of magic, magic was accepted in society. It's like you create a different kind of medicine in a society where medicine is accepted, it's not taboo-ish UNLESS society makes an exception, the expression for this exception needs to be depicted. It wasn't, so I conclude that Eileen didn't do anything taboo-ish because taboo are decided by the society, not by the reader. What could be taboo-ish to you, may not be for the community we are reading about. Problem occurs here is that Eileen's society isn't fleshed out by Mashima, an example of rushed writing. So you and I can only speculate what's the society was about but I don't accept supposed views about it unless evidence is given and in this case it's not.
Delete7) As for Acnologia's actions, this is ancient time, what happened in war isn't known for everyone to full accuracy. This is obvious in Fairy Tail world because there are so many rumors about Acnologia rather than historical records. The average man at the time of war would know that A) Dragons/enemy got wiped out (unless you argue that they were enemy humans involved as well?) B) Thanks to involvement of dragon slayers C) who were created thanks to Eileen. The knowledge of who killed the friendly dragons or who was the dragon slayers who did the most work is known to us, the readers, but not necessary to the people in the manga, they may not even bother to learn as long as the outcome is in their favor. Again if you disagree, then the manga needs to depict this, that people were aware. It didn't, so lack of evidence does not make me accept the idea that there was not a single soul that tried to defend the inventor of dragon slayer magic that gave them the edge to win the war against the dragons. Surely there must be at least one patriotic soul, defending her, even if they are the black sheep of the society, no?
8) I don't recall ever Eileen admitting that she was wrong in what she did and even if we were to accept that she has no power as a queen, the title of Dragon Queen is alone to gain attention and refer to point 7 for more reason why it wasn't surprising for anyone to take her side. Again you reject this idea but it reveals the weakness in speculations, you are willing to go with the idea that her name might be wiped off history books even though there is no evidence for this yet you push the argument that she has no supporters because there is no evidence of her ever being an authority figure. Guess what, if it required someone to wipe her name off, then she must be a figure whose name is worth writing in the first place no? Hence someone would stand by her if she is worth something at least.
9) Viewing her as a plague-bringer is again speculation and like I said in point 7, it is not hard to find people who would see her differently because I stated in point 5 that her actions were grey, not completely black. However it is difficult to see her as a plague-bringer because the 'plague' itself kinda disappeared off the map as being a mere-tale of a being that was capable of casual genocide. Again I don't reject her idea of being tortured but rather the intensity of it and how it was done publicly and no one seems to mind, is really hard to believe.
10) As for her previous nation arguably destroyed, fair enough. But you cannot deny that humans Eileen were depicted as one-dimensional evil then because no one did show her any support. Which is the whole point I'm desperately asking for realism of someone standing up for her but if that would happen then Eileen wouldn't bear hatred against humanity and hence we would get a somewhat believable villain with a mature outlook on life rather than complete apathy for humanity. That's why writing feels forced around this, Mashima made sure humanity offered no good to her, which is not how humans function in real life, especially when her case was grey as I stated in point 5.
DeleteEnd.
PS: I didn't respond to your last 4 paragaraphs because I didn't know you were still writing but I have read and I do agree with your TL:DR. It is a good story but I think if it was timed properly, as like a foundation of everything in early arcs, I think might have passed off as really good.
DeleteAgain, I can’t take these as “conclusive statements” because it still looks like you’re ignoring everything I’ve said so far. Plus… personally speaking, I feel it’s kind of a dick move to just demand it end off so arbitrarily.
Delete1). Eileen was foreshadowed as well, if to a lesser degree, by Neinhart when he fought her - and again, her similarities to Erza and reputation as one of Zeref’s top two in turn foreshadowed her having a big role in either the plot, the lore or both. Not to mention that you got my point reversed/got the context wrong - Acnologia himself was a byproduct of Zeref messing with Dragon-Slayer magic, so he counts as just being another of Zeref’s ill-intended creations, which keeps Zeref as the central Big Bad in the long run. What my *actual* point was is that Eileen, like Acnologia, is a secondary antagonist who’s actual “fleshing out” wasn’t done very bad compared to FT’s standards.
2). Not really, considering Zeref’s more sympathetic origins and tortured nature were also wiped from the history books, as was the fact that all his creations were elaborate (failed) suicide attempts instead of weapons of world domination. And again, Eileen’s time was from 400 years ago, where even something as prolific as the total extinction of the dragons isn’t public knowledge and never revealed to anyone until the GMG Arc. Simply put, Eileen’s reveal doesn’t violate the established canon because all we knew of the past before now was second-hand legend, which is trumped in authenticity by her and Zeref’s first-hand accounts. Your expectations are out-of-line because, as annoying as it is to constantly get new elements Mashima never actually gave anything but in-universe *myths and stories* about the past, which allows for enough ambiguity that any "true account" can reveal things the records don’t have and not void the overall lore.
3). That’s just it, though - “formulaic writing” can be subjective, in that it can just as much describe an author who never moves from their personal rules of doing anything. Likewise, “rules” themselves are subjective because if you stick so exclusively to them, you end up with nothing but a bunch of stereotypes instead of fleshed-out characters - hell, Mashima’s issue is arguably that he sticks *too much* to trope rules that stymie his story’s development. In addition, none of this even applies to Eileen since (A) it keeps in line with explaining why Dragon-Slayer magic was dangerous and made forbidden to begin with, and (B) doesn’t violate the established lore of things (Acnologia still butchers the dragons, Zeref is still out there, etc). Again, if you only ever see anything by the rules, you can become biased and not see other alternatives, hence why saying things like “follow them obediently” is a misnomer, if not an outright mistake in some cases.
4). No, it isn’t - simply put, emotional exploitation is a *baseline function* of flashback stories; Attack on Titan and Tokyo Ghoul arguably prove as much. The very process of invoking emotions IS emotional exploitation because it’s literally causing you to feel something different for the character. What you’re saying is, simply put, completely contradictory. Additionally, subtlety actually *isn’t* always entirely critical - it’s good to keep in mind, but is ultimately optional. Plus, this arguably did have some subtlety in how it explains a few things (Acnologia’s acts getting Dragon-Slayer magic banned, what it is that distinguishes first-gen Dragon-Slayers from others, etc).
Delete5). Again, no - witches *are* a good analogy because, while some records note a few were just simple medicine women helping others, their potential for misuse and fears of cursing others outweighed those benefits. And likewise, Eileen’s problem was ALSO OBVIOUS - her work created Acnologia/FT’s version of Kratos/A horseman of the apocalypse, and now she herself looked to be sharing that fate. The mass genocide and insane abuse of power Acnologia enacted made it anything but questionable in the eyes of those who survived the war only because Acnologia didn’t see them worth killing. Like I said, *everyone* who used Dragon-Slayer magic seemed to either die or become like Acnologia - hell, it’s possible that Acnologia’s the only other Dragon-Slayer besides Eileen that survived dragonizing (possibly because of Zeref’s help), so there really wasn’t any positive outliers (or at least none left alive) for the magic like there are in the modern time with Natsu and co. As far as the world was concerned, Dragon-Slayer magic DIDN’T win a war - Eileen said so herself; the only one who “won” the war was Acnologia, in the same way like how the Doctor in Doctor Who was long considered the only one who “won” the Time War; by wiping everyone else out. Everyone else (dragons, who were wiped out, and humans, who were left devastated) arguably lost out pretty badly, so it’s really, *really* hard to argue that nobody would see that magic as black - especially since even now the magic is publicly forbidden. So no, there really wouldn’t be any gray viewpoint for the scared people who’s only knowledge of Dragon-Slayers is that just one of them nearly ruined the whole world - hence why they would not just accept “witch-burning” but quite honestly would be likely to applaud it.
6). Again, refer to point 2 on why that actually isn’t the case/why it’s very much a subjective issue. Eileen introduced a magic that resulted in the creation of one of the most powerful and dangerous beings to ever exist - something that, again, wiped out the entirety of one of the strongest races in the whole series and only spared humanity out of apathy. Everyone Eileen had to back her up (the dragons and her fellow countrymen Dragon-Slayers) are dead as an indirect consequence of her own actions/research. Magic in general being accepted doesn’t automatically equate to *all* magics being acceptable - that’s like saying people should mess around with electricity unprotected just because it’s a daily resource, or that everyone should have access to opiates just because it’s a medicine and “medicine is accepted.” What you did just there is an extremely gross oversimplification of any societal system and therefore inaccurate. If anything, what you said ought to prove the *opposite* - Eileen’s work was considered extremely harmful (not one single person who was subject to it came out for the better, with the only known survivors of it being herself and Acnologia), and the results of that are what turned it into a taboo *retroactively*. Her work was considered proven dangerous with the advent of Acnologia’s actions and the deaths of everyone else who ever used it, with society *thereafter deciding* it a taboo to use - hence why I feel your conclusion is invalid. Eileen’s society (dragon-slayers and dragons) was wiped out, and she got married off into a society that witnessed what the after-effects of that disaster were, so it’s actually the opposite - it’s really a pretty safe bet to say that they were scared out of their minds enough to consider what they did justified, and evidence to such was clearly presented over these past few chapters (again, hence why I made the earlier comment that you were literally ignoring everything I said).
Delete7). But again, that’s precisely why Eileen’s accounts of things and her role in the past doesn’t void the lore of the series. Pretty much *everything* about the past age was legend. At the same time though, your current example is wrong because Eileen’s story takes place in the past, where what happened was both a fresh act and was actively witnessed by a large number of people, including Eileen’s husband. And consider that Acnologia seemed to be the either only other Dragon-Slayer besides Eileen herself that actually survived Draginization… or that if there were others, Acnologia killed them all when he killed the dragons. Either way you cut that, it doesn’t exactly paint a good picture of Dragon-Slayers for the common human to place faith in. So in other words, your ABC points are actually fallacious - it’s more that they “knew” (A) Dragons and Dragon-Slayers were wiped out, (B) said genocide was done by ONE rogue Dragon-Slayer, and (C) Eileen is responsible, indirectly or otherwise, for mass genocide and devastation. Again, none of which paints a picture most people fresh out of a world-ending war would place faith in. And no - by all accounts, nobody other then Eileen and Acnologia had the full story of what truly happened; aside from the ABC points I listed, all anybody had was speculation. Combine that with some Ishgar dragons defecting as well and as far as humanity knew, it was all just one big brawl that ended out badly for anyone and nobody even cared anymore that there had been friendly dragons. The manga therefore didn’t need to depict it because it, honestly speaking, isn’t as hard to figure out because, like I already said, *everyone* - every single person - who ever used Dragon-Slayer magic either died, ended up like Acnologia and/or ended up killed by Acnologia, leaving absolutely no other Dragon-Slayer besides Acnologia himself as an example for people to identify with the term “Dragon-Slayer”… and again, considering his casual acts of genocide and that practically no sympathetic dragons orDragon-Slayers survived, it’s really comparatively easy to understand why there wouldn’t be anyone defending her. And considering that Eileen’s public flogging was likely done precisely to intimidate said “black sheep” who might sympathize with her, I have to say “No.”
Delete8). But that’s my exact point - she never said anything *either way.* She never said she *accepted or forgave* what was done to her; she never said she understood why they did it or defended their actions; again, that was your assumption. Also, you’ve misinterpreted things - the title “Dragon Queen” was *figurative* to represent her being the metaphorical matriarch of Dragon-Slayers as a whole, due to her being the one to invent their magic; it is not and never was a title indicating royalty in her bloodline by marriage or otherwise. It was a title of respect for her power and accomplishments, just like Erza’s own title of “Titania the Fairy Queen” is. And after what Acnologia did and the devastation the war left (a war caused by dragons, I remind you), “Dragon Queen” may as well have equated to saying “Devil Queen” by the time she was imprisoned, with my own response to point 7 helping to compound why most people would likely not feel anything but fear at that point in response to it. Again, like I said, the “weakness” here is more that you’re mistaking unstated fact for “speculation”. Like I said before, FT’s history is so spotty that the fact the dragons went extinct *isn’t publicly known* - everyone assumes they “disappeared” - and Zeref’s abominations against humanity weren’t remembered as his own failed suicide attempts. If something that major isn’t even public knowledge - and when the few details that are remembered are limited to second-hand myth and legend - then how can you possibly justify claiming Eileen’s existence fading from the records as having no evidence, let alone being impossible? If anything, it's *ironclad fact* - it definitely happened; it’s just the exact how the history was lost that is being speculated. And again, the evidence for why Eileen had no supports was clearly stated here - (A) everyone that could vouch for her (dragons, Dragon-Slayers, etc) is dead, (B) the only other Dragon-Slayer people have to get an impression from is Acnologia, and (C) quashing the will of those few who might have sympathized with a “monster” like her and keeping anyone else from following her line of research was likely the entire point of her publicized torment. In short, “No” - a name doesn’t actually have to be worth something be wiped out; it just has to be associated with a bad enough action. If Eileen’s name were wiped out, it would be because of the consequences of her work, not because her name had any fame before that infamy - and after the Dragon-Human War, all she was “worth” was the reminder of mass genocide and a rouge monster who pretty much spared humanity on a whim.
Delete9). And again, points 7-8 prove otherwise; there is enough provided between the chapters thus far to illustrate why little to nobody would want to sympathize what what was basically the inventor of the harbinger of destruction (Acnologia), indirectly causing the genocide of one race and the cultural genocide of her home society. Like I said, the only other Dragon-Slayer known to survive the war was Acnologia, which didn’t paint a very good picture for Eileen to the people - my own response to point 5 illustrates that much; as far as the people were concerned, it couldn’t be any black and white a case or where it was Eileen stood on that. The plague she unleashed on the world was Acnologia himself - and with his single-handedly wiping out the dragons (again, one of the series’ strongest races), he proved he could have wiped out humans too if he wanted; he just didn’t care enough to. And the intensity of her torture was, like I said, probably done to discourage anyone from trying to sympathize with or mimic her so as to ensure nobody beyond Eileen herself would pose the same kind of threat Acnologia did. That’s why it’s not hard to believe at all that they would be that terrified after how the war ended.
Delete10). They were the survivors of a war that nearly totaled the whole world. And they only survived because the culmination of Eileen’s research (Acnologia) spared humanity out of apathy. In the aftermath of a conflict started by dragons themselves. They arguably had every reason to fear Eileen at best and actively hate her at worst - again, realistically speaking, it equates to how witches were treated in the medieval times (which the Dragon-Human War is analogous to in FT lore). You need to keep in mind that laws and acceptable statures of limitations would be different several centuries in the past just like how they are for our own world - in that sense, it *is* realistic contextually speaking. Anybody left to stand up for her was already dead as a(n indirect) result of her own actions, anybody else only had the pain and death her research and anyone like her had caused to use as an example, and those few who weren’t terrified of her were likely silenced via her publicly displayed torture. Just like there weren’t people up and standing up for witches in the old age, so to is it realistic that this older society wouldn’t have had anyone standing up for Eileen - because as history books prove, humans as a whole were pretty jaded back then compared to now, and there wasn’t quite as much humanity to spare for people who were seen as inhumane or tied to inhumane arts. That’s precisely why the writing *doesn’t* feel forced in this regard - Eileen, simply put, was as much a product of her time as she was a product of her own actions and experiences. Humanity was far more judgmental of her because humanity back then was a race of struggling survivors from a war she was part of; a war that her actions helped spawn a nightmare (Acnologia) from. Humans in real life were every bit and judgmental and cruel to suspected heretics in the past as these people were to Eileen - and unlike FT, our society *didn’t* have the justification of a war directly caused by said victim’s magic to base their hate and fear off of. Humans in real life *changed* over 400 years, hence why I again cannot accept your apparent belief that humans in FT would have supposedly been any different - and once again, why I cannot in good conscience call this chapter “shit writing” like you keep trying to.
P.S. - Sorry for the initial comment failures; Mitchell is my father's username. Computer was signed into him and I forgot to switch :P
DeleteHoly shit, that's a lot of comments. I'll try to respond to the some of the topics without repeating what you all have said in your arguments. Agree that Eileen's torture scene and general sympathy backstory are poorly handled, but unlike, say, Gaara, Ymir or the Haku example below, present-day Eileen hasn't done ANYTHING to hint that she's any kind of decent person. Haku was nice to Zabuza and Naruto prior to their fight, Ymir was a fully-fledged character way before any hint of a backstory came to light, Gaara is visibly emotionally stunted and there's an aura of interest regarding those two characters before the tragic backstory and their respective emotional tortures came to light. With Eileen, though? It's really hard to reconcile the present-day Mary Sue Boring Villain Eileen with the tortured princess trapped in a body she didn't choose to be in from the flashbacks, and that's the biggest problem, I think, in addition to all the other problems that the tortures in the flashbacks.
DeleteBut, again, credit where credit's due, it's a well-told backstory. Just one that kind of fails to make me care about the present day. If anything, I actually want to learn more about the setting they presented in the past, and not return to the boring blah-fest that's Eileen vs Erza. YMMV on whether the pregnancy is Fairy Tail tackling a surprisingly mature topic or if it's just a cheap way to try and garner sympathy, though I do agree with some arguments regarding the torture and the lack of motivation for a lengthy and humiliating torture session. Though honestly casual racism against what they view to be the next Acnologia might be reason enough... the question remains why they didn't just execute Eileen the moment she shows signs of being transforming into a dragon, though again the martyr argument is a valid one. We can go on and on as to whether the torture of Eileen is justifiable or not since all we got to see is a very quick montage of her being tortured -- nothing about the motivations of her husband and the people of the land that torture her, whether it's racism, general hate, a warning to people, just fear because they've been fucked over by Acnologia (the plague-bearer comparison is apt), or whether they're just depraved fuckers who like BDSM.
Definitely agree that extending it for three years is unrealistic and honestly very odd that no harm came to the baby, magic or no magic... though it might be that the 'torture' are actually just failed execution attempts, or something. I dunno. Also agree that the human nation torturing Eileen were one-dimensional, but then it's from Eileen's POV, and while I'd have preferred like a couple extra scenes showing them struggling with what to do with the Eileen situation, it's not something I'd lose sleep over.
DeleteAs far as the Gaara/Eileen comparisons go, we probably have to take into account the differences of their psyches and the political situation at the time. Eileen's persecution came after a period of war, where the war is effectively ended by Acnologia, who proved to have godlike, genocide-causing powers by abusing the dragon slayer magic. The war is over, all the human races suffer the aftermath of the dragons' dying, and here is a woman who is transforming into a dragon where other slayers are dying or dead. Whereas Gaara is a child (which explains his emotional stunting -- the fact is exacerbated by the fact that his uncle, the one family member who acted parently towards him, was forced to assassinate him) who gets a weapon of mass destruction, the Shukaku, put into him, and he's basically forced to become a weapon. Gaara and the other Jinchuriki are basically walking weapons of doom, but very much needed for the Village of the Hidden Sand to stay in power considering the other nations also had Jinchurikis. It's like having an atom bomb personified as someone walking in the street. You don't like it, but you want it to be on your side. But it's still a weapon of mass destruction, so as much as you can you don't want anything to do with it. Or something like that.
Wow Hiro this is pathetic. The list of shit wrong and pathetic with this chapter. First, the big thing does anyone care about Irene as a character. I mean seriously she is a nothing character. She has no character outside of thing for Erza to overcome.So anyway Her backstory is like Haku's from Naruto.
ReplyDeleteOh god, Hiro is trying to copy naruto. Recap Haku was a Ninja with ICE release Justu he inherited from his mother. Years ago his Mom and the other ninja fought in THE WAAAARRRR. After it was over they were feared for their strength. when his father found out that Haku and his mom are those Ninjas. he rounds up a posse kills the mother and haku kill them with his powers in desperation. DO I NEED GO WITH THIS! That is a point for point what happened Irene.
the Problem with that is I Knew and kinda understood Haku before his backstory that helped us care about his Backstory which was mercifully short. I understood and was kinda interested Baby 5 before her backstory. My point Irene is bland generic evil I don't understand how anyone could care.
Second Point Torture, Violence, Humiliation. I do appreciate for once Hiro tried to make it look ugly(He failed.) However, this is one of those things were just saying it would have sufficed. Cause in the case of the last one she is tied naked to cross because... I don't know. Why go on for three years before just executing her. Of Course, Hiro just has husband try to cut out the child.
Three ties with two. Why do the 3 years of Torture, The question is not what was the point. Clearly, the point is dehumanization that Irene is supposed to feel. It is why she turned the princess into mouse kinda out of nowhere and expected the king to abandon her. I am asking why didn't Irene fight her way out of the castle and live in Exile? She is supposed to be one of the strongest Soldiers and yet she stays why? Right, her husband who she should have no emotional attachment to right away turns on her. I have no clue.
Jesus this whole part is just pathetic. Hiro is pushing David Cage level pathetic feel bad for this character emotional writing. Irene is not a character in strife at her lowest point. Irene is character tool to make you feel. Betrayed by her people because she is turning into a dragon like Acnologia, so she is tortured while pregnant, and when she is in danger snaps go off to the mountains.
Why doesn't she give birth to Ezra when she is a dragon. I get she used magic to delay it so Ezra wouldn't be born in prison. Okay, I understand that So dragons can't give birth? She doesn't want to raise Erza in the woods. FINE.
Zeref is all like hey I can make you look Human. He says you only look human. She fine because I am human. She eats food and it is Tasteless so what you can't taste food. So she can't sleep really that is an annoyance. now she is cold and itches what? So what I am supposed to grasp is Zeref just made her look human or put her in a fake body. This does not make sense. So she is like still a dragon on the inside. What dragons never eat or could never taste food? They never slept? She FEELS cold and itchy...what. If the body is fake why does she feel at all and if she is a dragon why is she cold? What are the rules? what is going on?
The final thing why is she following Zeref. He did nothing for her, in fact, he did less nothing for her. If anything she should hate him and plan to kill him. He screwed her with a shit body that does not work. I don't understand her motivations at all. shouldn't she be like the fourth force in this war? She Hates Zeref and Acnologia and she would not care for Fairy Tail.
DEAR GOD THAT WAS LONG. Hiro do your brain work? Because this not one me have not work.
My point exactly but I think her connection with Zeref is that just like her, he doesn't feel much for humanity either. But since we are talking about good writing, simply removing her from the story would have been better.
DeleteThat does not explain why she follows him and obey his orders without question. Zeref Actions left her in a worst state than when she started. Why does she not hate zeref? That would make sense. Zeref in a fucked way reinforced her dehumanization. That body is constant reminder that she is longer human. You would logically think that she would become a new faction. Even if it is suppose to be like she abandoned her Humanity or something the body zeref should be this frustrating thing for Eileen or Irene should make her Hate zeref. This is really dumb and like I have been bitching about for weeks is this adds NOTHING and just Serves to be Complicated and stupid. Hiro fails at adding stuff to his series.
DeleteI don't care about Eileen either, but I wouldn't say that Fairy Tail blatantly ripped off Haku. The trope of someone who's feared for their power and persecuted because of it has been around in fiction way before Haku or Eileen made it a thing. It's just how well-written and how well-presented authors make it. Still agree that I still don't care about Eileen as a character, though, and I do agree that it is a bit odd that Eileen didn't try to fight her way out... though arguably she wasn't a warrior before the whole dragon transformation thing. Did last chapter show that she's already a warrior before this whole war thing? I don't know, and I can't be bothered to check.
DeleteAgreed that there's really no reason for Eileen to work for Zeref, unless Zeref made her a promise that he could turn her fully human if she helped him win the war or something, but eh. I don't really try to think too hard about Fairy Tail character motivations.
Eileen is a badly handled character -- by no means is my review trying to say that she's not -- all I'm saying is the flashback wasn't badly written. It just kind of... fails in getting me to care for Eileen.
I hear ya, I think it's the "Pet the Dog" trope that you feed a hungry stray dog and it'll follow you forever or in this case restore her human form. While it didn't work as intended, I think she appreciated the kindness behind the act, something she didn't get for hundred of years (btw this is my prime reason for hating immortal/long age characters, it's hard to judge them based on a human standard, like how would hundreds of years of loneliness can affect one's reasoning?). So for this small kindness, she ended up as an obedient bitch to Zeref. You might say that no human can be stupid enough to just be slave over a small act of failed kindness but she isn't much of a human anymore, is she?
DeleteAlso, for Eileen being a warrior, we did see her holding a sword at the end of chapter 513.
DeleteI am half joking about Hiro Ripping off Naruto because, we have Edo Tensei in the Memory power that loser did. and Sudden revival of the whole Gray and Nastu Rivalry with Gray having corrupting evil power or Sasuke(In fairness he is far more likeable). Inner subconscious explaining the hero's backstory Naruto. In a forum I go to it is kinda a running joke that Hiro stopped ripping off Oda and started Ripping off Naruto.
DeleteRyo- even with God,crazy,inhuman characters you can write there logic so it is comprehensible. There is nothing given to us to make this understandable. Irene is nonsensical. what you are saying doesn't make sense cause Zeref feed her rancid meat that made her sick and left her in a worst state.
DeleteThe issue with that is that... well, it's kinda completely wrong with the comparison to Naruto, in my opinion. Haku didn't want to be a weapon at all and he had no control over the power he got, basically drifting through life until someone gave him a purpose. Eileen's almost the complete opposite - everything she went through was, indirectly or otherwise, either a direct product or partially affected by her own actions and/or ambitions, and she went through life seeming to know exactly where her place in the world was prior to it all being ripped out from under her. Haku also never went to war like his family - but Eileen did, and she purposefully led/inspired others to follow her, only for them all to end up dead. Haku was feared for what his parents could do, but Eileen was feared for what SHE HERSELF could actually do and had in fact done, not just with Dragon-Slayer magic but in enabling Acnologia's creation.
DeleteLike I said before, I think they were trying to copy Attack on Titan more with Eileen being an analogue to Girsha/Eren's Father, then borrowing from Yimir with the "trapped in a monster state" part. Of course it wasn't as well done, but the fact is that I think Eileen's story was closer to a "hoisted by their own petard" trope then the "child weapon" stories of Naruto's Haku and Gaara.
As for the torture, I already said my peace on that - in all likelihood, they probably wanted to terrify any sympathizers to Eileen out of trying to help or side with her, given the fears of what people who followed her path could become (again, Acnologia). That's also not counting that, like BlackJack said, some of that was failed torture attempts. Plus, keep in mind that *they* (the people tormenting her) didn't actually know she was pregnant - or rather, they didn't believe her when she told them.
And the reason she didn't fight her way out has two simple explanations - she either didn't want to (become a "monster", that is), or all her magic was going toward suppressing both the dragon-changes and her pregnancy. Also, it's possible that it simply wouldn't have been safe to give birth to Erza in her state, and that the dragon-change left Erza stuck in suspended animation, so to speak - it's not really defined enough to make it an issue so much as an annoying mystery. Also, I think that what happened to her body was a side-effect of the changes - the extent of the alterations needed to change her back might have damaged her body, rendering her "inhuman" - not dragon, but not truly human anymore either. Simply put, it'd be kinda like Orochimaru in that regard - all the alterations to her body caused some kind of damage to it. However, Zeref did at least give her a human appearance again - plus he can help her kill Acnologia, who is technically *both* their mistake and the one who is implied to have killed her dragon-parent... not to mention she arguably has nowhere else to go and it's better to be his ally then his enemy.
Blackjack she was the inventor of dragon Slayer magic it is pretty said she is a Front liner in the war.
ReplyDeleteThat doesn't necessarily mean she was a warrior by nature, though. Wendy's a Dragon-Slayer and yet she classifies more as an enchanter then a brawler like Natsu or Gajeel. It's the same as how she was considered a "queen" and made de-facto leader of a (destroyed) nation without actually being royalty - her abilities demanded respect without her having had to be born to a certain specification.
DeleteChapter 516, early release: https://yonkouprod.com/reader/read/fairy-tail/en/0/516/page/1
ReplyDeleteThanks to Yonkou.
if i am not wrong , it mean that erza is theoretically realy old, no ?
ReplyDeletedo people remenber that time with the magic that block old people for the arc with laxus ?
if i am right , mashima literally broke his continuty (and proof that erza parent was never a thing that was planned to be dig ) .
oh ,and 35 comments . it"s like the biggest number of comments for a article on the blog .
Depends, do we count age of a person starting from when they are originated in the womb? Because Erza didn't leave her mother's womb for 400 years because 'magic' and her mother having a lifespan of a dragon.
DeleteSee, THAT is one of the things that did strike me the wrong way about the chapter. Even if Eileen's backstory was pretty good (especially by FT standards), Eileen herself isn't enough of a compelling character to really make any sympathy for her stick.
DeleteFor example; if Erza was inside her for 400 years, you would think a scientist and enchanter like her would think "hey, this kid that's been in me for centuries may have developed some kind of resistance to dragonization that I can use to develop a cure for my damaged bod" - yet instead, she just casts Erza aside the moment she realizes she can't take her over as a replacement body.
The above illustrates one of Eileen's biggest character flaws; she's a Mary Sue that, for all her informed ingenuity and power, doesn't actually make any smart choices and acts without thinking on the self-assurance that "I'm powerful, therefore I'm invincible". Hell, that was made even more obvious in how she threw a tantrum after learning how the Dragon-Slayers were able to avoid sharing her fate, her driving motivation apparently being reduced to an "I want my life back" fit. Even moreso when one considers that, after decades of not feeling pain, her getting all those senses back is more likely to overwhelm her and be a weakness in battle.
the dragon slayer has be block by the magic wall because of time travel bulshit .
ReplyDeletethey are "theoretically" old , but why erza is not "theoretically" old her too ?
because she doesnt have a name, be poop or other stupid reason ?
really , it just bullshit (because erza mom was never supose to exist ) .
Well, given the fact that Acnologia apparently never aged in 400 years, it's possible dragon-slayers just get the same longevity that dragons do. Add that in with how stasis magic (like Mavis' lacrima prison) can keep even near-death people in pristine condition for centuries, and it becomes way easier to justify both Erza and Eileen being theoretically old but physically young. FT was always fast and loose with stuff like that, so it's not something that gets broken just because Eileen was Erza's mom.
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